Well I finally got a chance to see the heartless monkey video that Chas and Steve have. I thought I'd give you all my 2 cents worth and you can take it or leave it for whatever you want. Wow.... Seriously... Wow... If you own, play, work, or even like to look at knives and you have not picked up this video you are missing out on something. I can't believe the amount of info this video has. Everything from practical carry and use info on knife fighting to emotional/psychological aspects of fighting itself alone and knife use as well. Don't get me wrong, the video quality itself is nothing to write home about. It's not Steven Speilberg or George Lucas quality. It is what it CONTAINS that makes it so damn good. It's a good compilation of stuff DESPITE the video quality. I went to a silat school a while back and when they tried to teach me a Juru I was bored stiff. I wanted to do the technical hands on stuff. Even when I asked application, when they showed me I could have cared less. It was boring and I couldn't see their application being useful. Thanx to Steve Gartin in that video I now have a better understanding and on top of that a USEFUL application concept. Chas, Chas, Chas...you old bastard. The stuff you were showing in what looked like your back yard was great everyday use on what to do with a knife when you are out in public. No sugar coated stuff you can do in the dojo. Sure there was some art aspects of the knife but most of the stuff I saw was fuctional. In fact, all through it I saw comparisons to stuff I do in Systema knife and stuff I have seen when I have been exposed to Pekiti Tersia. Vlad himself loves to "disarm the gun" as you explained. Steve... Whoah... You are one fluid son of a biotch. That double knife part of the video had my head moving like a spectator at a retarded doubles tennis match with 10 tennis balls in action. The talk you gave on drawing the blade and using it even when folded or the shealth being a weapon and how to combine the two was great. I've seen stuff like that but your explanation was awesome and you follwed it along by giving kewl examples. Midway through my viewing I was interrupted by a friend whom I like to train with, within minutes he spoke up with, "Can I borrow this?" Of couse being the friend I am I said "No." Ha ha ha! But he sat down and watched it with me. Totally enthralled. Who was that kid at the start of the video? Wow! He's like 10 and moves like that? Uncle Bill looked like some old dude but watching carefully his motion with that knife he's and old dude I would be saying, "Uhhh...is there anything I can get for you...Sir?" Also, that intro was kewl. At first I thought it was kinda stupid and just an intro for the credits and bad music but then I suddenly stopped and saw a gate into for grappling. I was like, "Damn, I am trying that in submission fighting this week. In fact, there is another one. Hey, that's another entry!" Anyway, Pierre! Dude, you will LOVE this video. I know that it's expensive making the cash converstion but I honestly would recommend it. Badger, and the rest of us Canucks, you guys too. Seriously, thanx Chas and Steve. But now I hate you. It's not fair. Like a pusher who gives out his first samples to hook his clientel. But I have to say, when you get videos of actual fighting men, (and not some wacko who is theoretical about his art and has videos in a sterile evironment where he explain how things "should work,") well, you can appreciate them. A big thumbs up from me. Anyone on RMA who buys this video IMHO will be getting their money's worth and a ton of stuff that they can use to work in training that will be helpful. ...and that's my bottom line!
DougŪ http://members.tripod.com/~russianmartialart/systema.html Good evening DougŪ Just got home and pulled up the group and what do I find! I'm humbled - thank you. "DougŪ" <sokolistalinaREMOVE@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:gh5t5v8hsdf045fs2r4cqu3o2tnu78m7va@4ax.com... > Well I finally got a chance to see the heartless monkey video > that Chas and Steve have. I thought I'd give you all my 2 cents worth > and you can take it or leave it for whatever you want. > Wow.... > Seriously... > Wow... > If you own, play, work, or even like to look at knives and you > have not picked up this video you are missing out on something. > I can't believe the amount of info this video has. Everything > from practical carry and use info on knife fighting to > emotional/psychological aspects of fighting itself alone and knife use > as well.
Do you think a sequel would be in order?
> Don't get me wrong, the video quality itself is nothing to > write home about. It's not Steven Speilberg or George Lucas quality. > It is what it CONTAINS that makes it so damn good. It's a good > compilation of stuff DESPITE the video quality.
I'm working on the quality issue, but quality is directly affected by cash flow; and it has been a bit of a struggle for me the past 10 years or so. The next influx of cash will buy new equipment - the improvement in quality of production should be noticable. I'm working on the Heartless Monkey Knife DVD right this moment and it looks better to me.
> I went to a silat school a while back and when they tried to > teach me a Juru I was bored stiff. I wanted to do the technical hands > on stuff. Even when I asked application, when they showed me I could > have cared less. It was boring and I couldn't see their application > being useful. Thanx to Steve Gartin in that video I now have a better > understanding and on top of that a USEFUL application concept.
We like to teach the application with the technique so that folks understand WHY they are making certain precise movements. Seems an easier way to understand for me, but I find that only mature practitioners view things from that stand-point. Most folks like the flashy stuff.
> Chas, Chas, Chas...you old bastard. The stuff you were showing > in what looked like your back yard was great everyday use on what to > do with a knife when you are out in public. No sugar coated stuff you > can do in the dojo. Sure there was some art aspects of the knife but > most of the stuff I saw was fuctional. In fact, all through it I saw > comparisons to stuff I do in Systema knife and stuff I have seen when > I have been exposed to Pekiti Tersia. Vlad himself loves to "disarm > the gun" as you explained.
Chas has a talent for nitty-gritty explanation! As a matter of fact, I can think of no-one his equal in that realm. I've always felt that he and I make a complimentary teaching unit - especially since he can explain me better than I can!
> Steve... > Whoah... > You are one fluid son of a biotch. That double knife part of > the video had my head moving like a spectator at a retarded doubles > tennis match with 10 tennis balls in action. The talk you gave on > drawing the blade and using it even when folded or the shealth being a > weapon and how to combine the two was great. I've seen stuff like that > but your explanation was awesome and you follwed it along by giving > kewl examples.
We've actually had a lot of information out in high-level circles for a decade or better. Lots of self-proclaimed *experts* have been using our material for some time now. I appreciate your compliment - thank you.
> Midway through my viewing I was interrupted by a friend whom I > like to train with, within minutes he spoke up with, "Can I borrow > this?" Of couse being the friend I am I said "No." Ha ha ha! But he > sat down and watched it with me. Totally enthralled.
Thanks for spreading the word. That is our best advertisement.
> Who was that kid at the start of the video? Wow! He's like 10 > and moves like that?
That's my son, Elijah Rock Gartin - he was six and seven then. Since it's a *family art* everyone practices.
>Uncle Bill looked like some old dude but watching > carefully his motion with that knife he's and old dude I would be > saying, "Uhhh...is there anything I can get for you...Sir?"
When I first met Uncle Bill, we used to kid about him being *most likely to be mugged* jest from the stand-point that he appears an easy mark. . . Woops! - some day I'll tell you some really funny stories. . .
> Also, that intro was kewl. At first I thought it was kinda > stupid and just an intro for the credits and bad music but then I > suddenly stopped and saw a gate into for grappling. I was like, "Damn, > I am trying that in submission fighting this week. In fact, there is > another one. Hey, that's another entry!"
We call that *play* - but to get the real drift, you need to have a knife in your hands.
> Anyway, Pierre! Dude, you will LOVE this video. I know that > it's expensive making the cash converstion but I honestly would > recommend it. Badger, and the rest of us Canucks, you guys too.
Hey, you Canadian guys shouldn't be sucking hind tit here just because of the conversion. Let's figure out how we can level the price field for you guys - let me know and Chas and I will make adjustments.
> Seriously, thanx Chas and Steve. But now I hate you. It's not > fair. Like a pusher who gives out his first samples to hook his > clientel. But I have to say, when you get videos of actual fighting > men, (and not some wacko who is theoretical about his art and has > videos in a sterile evironment where he explain how things "should > work,") well, you can appreciate them.
DougŪ - that is a high complement and I appreciate it. I want to thank you for such a positive review.
> A big thumbs up from me. Anyone on RMA who buys this video > IMHO will be getting their money's worth and a ton of stuff that they > can use to work in training that will be helpful. > ...and that's my bottom line! > > DougŪ > http://members.tripod.com/~russianmartialart/systema.html
The Canadian contingency has certainly earned my respect and admiration. You guys all strike me as sincere and dedicated practitioners and I truly appreciate all your support over the years. When there is a way that I can be of assistance to any of you gentlemen, please let me know.
Steve Gartin wrote: > ......When there is a way that I can > be of assistance to any of you gentlemen, please let me know.
Yeah; what he said. And, anyone else who's having trouble with the prices, let me know. I know it sounds silly to say we're not in this for the money, but we've been giving away the store since we started out. Ask my wife <g> The de Thouars Brothers gave this as a gift, and we can do no less. Admittedly, we're trying to pay off equipment and buy more, fix stuff, and make more tapes and all that, but this has never been a paying proposition for anyone involved. The Gift of Gold has always been the same for the Widow's Son as it is for the Son of the Sultan; you do what you can with an open heart and a generous hand.
-- Chas Clements casemaker 303-910-2685 (Denver area) On Fri, 28 Feb 2003 01:22:55 +0100, "Jacob Andersen" <duk@glem.det> scribbled with their crayola:
>It's a pretty good video, eh?
I really enjoyed it.
DougŪ http://members.tripod.com/~russianmartialart/systema.html Yup Heartless Monkey Knife 2 would be cool, and then we could hear Chas say more memorable quotes like "stick it in and rowdy them around" and "they wiggle around and shit". I showed my wife a barrowed Paul Vunak tape after watching some of HMK and she said What the hell is he (Paul Vunak) doing? I just laughed. HMK is everything everyone said it was, a sequel would be a must have I'm sure.
"Steve Gartin" <steve@thunderrock.net> wrote in message news:3e5ee1d9_1@omega.dimensional.com... > Good evening DougŪ > Just got home and pulled up the group and what do I find! > I'm humbled - thank you. > "DougŪ" <sokolistalinaREMOVE@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:gh5t5v8hsdf045fs2r4cqu3o2tnu78m7va@4ax.com... > > Well I finally got a chance to see the heartless monkey video > > that Chas and Steve have. I thought I'd give you all my 2 cents worth > > and you can take it or leave it for whatever you want. > > Wow.... > > Seriously... > > Wow... > > If you own, play, work, or even like to look at knives and you > > have not picked up this video you are missing out on something. > > I can't believe the amount of info this video has. Everything > > from practical carry and use info on knife fighting to > > emotional/psychological aspects of fighting itself alone and knife use > > as well. > > Do you think a sequel would be in order? > > > Don't get me wrong, the video quality itself is nothing to > > write home about. It's not Steven Speilberg or George Lucas quality. > > It is what it CONTAINS that makes it so damn good. It's a good > > compilation of stuff DESPITE the video quality. > > I'm working on the quality issue, but quality is directly affected by cash > flow; and it has been a bit of a struggle for me the past 10 years or so. > The next influx of cash will buy new equipment - the improvement in quality > of production should be noticable. I'm working on the Heartless Monkey > Knife DVD right this moment and it looks better to me. > > > I went to a silat school a while back and when they tried to > > teach me a Juru I was bored stiff. I wanted to do the technical hands > > on stuff. Even when I asked application, when they showed me I could > > have cared less. It was boring and I couldn't see their application > > being useful. Thanx to Steve Gartin in that video I now have a better > > understanding and on top of that a USEFUL application concept. > > We like to teach the application with the technique so that folks understand > WHY they are making certain precise movements. Seems an easier way to > understand for me, but I find that only mature practitioners view things > from that stand-point. Most folks like the flashy stuff. > > > Chas, Chas, Chas...you old bastard. The stuff you were showing > > in what looked like your back yard was great everyday use on what to > > do with a knife when you are out in public. No sugar coated stuff you > > can do in the dojo. Sure there was some art aspects of the knife but > > most of the stuff I saw was fuctional. In fact, all through it I saw > > comparisons to stuff I do in Systema knife and stuff I have seen when > > I have been exposed to Pekiti Tersia. Vlad himself loves to "disarm > > the gun" as you explained. > > Chas has a talent for nitty-gritty explanation! As a matter of fact, I can > think of no-one his equal in that realm. I've always felt that he and I > make a complimentary teaching unit - especially since he can explain me > better than I can! > > > Steve... > > Whoah... > > You are one fluid son of a biotch. That double knife part of > > the video had my head moving like a spectator at a retarded doubles > > tennis match with 10 tennis balls in action. The talk you gave on > > drawing the blade and using it even when folded or the shealth being a > > weapon and how to combine the two was great. I've seen stuff like that > > but your explanation was awesome and you follwed it along by giving > > kewl examples. > > We've actually had a lot of information out in high-level circles for a > decade or better. Lots of self-proclaimed *experts* have been using our > material for some time now. I appreciate your compliment - thank you. > > > Midway through my viewing I was interrupted by a friend whom I > > like to train with, within minutes he spoke up with, "Can I borrow > > this?" Of couse being the friend I am I said "No." Ha ha ha! But he > > sat down and watched it with me. Totally enthralled. > > Thanks for spreading the word. That is our best advertisement. > > > Who was that kid at the start of the video? Wow! He's like 10 > > and moves like that? > > That's my son, Elijah Rock Gartin - he was six and seven then. Since it's a > *family art* everyone practices. > > >Uncle Bill looked like some old dude but watching > > carefully his motion with that knife he's and old dude I would be > > saying, "Uhhh...is there anything I can get for you...Sir?" > > When I first met Uncle Bill, we used to kid about him being *most likely to > be mugged* jest from the stand-point that he appears an easy mark. . . > Woops! - some day I'll tell you some really funny stories. . . > > > Also, that intro was kewl. At first I thought it was kinda > > stupid and just an intro for the credits and bad music but then I > > suddenly stopped and saw a gate into for grappling. I was like, "Damn, > > I am trying that in submission fighting this week. In fact, there is > > another one. Hey, that's another entry!" > > We call that *play* - but to get the real drift, you need to have a knife in > your hands. > > > Anyway, Pierre! Dude, you will LOVE this video. I know that > > it's expensive making the cash converstion but I honestly would > > recommend it. Badger, and the rest of us Canucks, you guys too. > > Hey, you Canadian guys shouldn't be sucking hind tit here just because of > the conversion. Let's figure out how we can level the price field for you > guys - let me know and Chas and I will make adjustments. > > > Seriously, thanx Chas and Steve. But now I hate you. It's not > > fair. Like a pusher who gives out his first samples to hook his > > clientel. But I have to say, when you get videos of actual fighting > > men, (and not some wacko who is theoretical about his art and has > > videos in a sterile evironment where he explain how things "should > > work,") well, you can appreciate them. > > DougŪ - that is a high complement and I appreciate it. I want to thank you > for such a positive review. > > > A big thumbs up from me. Anyone on RMA who buys this video > > IMHO will be getting their money's worth and a ton of stuff that they > > can use to work in training that will be helpful. > > ...and that's my bottom line! > > > > DougŪ > > http://members.tripod.com/~russianmartialart/systema.html > > The Canadian contingency has certainly earned my respect and admiration. > You guys all strike me as sincere and dedicated practitioners and I truly > appreciate all your support over the years. When there is a way that I can > be of assistance to any of you gentlemen, please let me know. > > With highest regards, > > Steve Gartin - Free :-)> > www.kuntaosilat.com > > >
>OK the quality is not so good, but do you mean 'video quality' >as in fuzzy or out of focus or recorded at Extended mode >(grainy) versus SLP (best quality on your VCR), or just the >lighting and backyard aspect. >I don't mind if it's got good content, but just wondering.
Well, the music is kinda cheesy heh heh heh but it's pretty good. I think it's very clear and not grainy. When I say the video quality is not the greatest I don't mean the picture is bad at all. It's taken at seminars and in backyards etc and you can hear easily what is going on so the sound isn't bad either. It's just not like flashy high production quality. The content however is really good and it's not hard to see or hear it. Just don't be expecting any oscars! LOL!
>Thanks for the great review.
No problemo. I have about a handful of videos that I have bought that are awesome production quality from other sources that the information on them is just shit. This was the opposite. Good info on an average production quality.
DougŪ http://members.tripod.com/~russianmartialart/systema.html hcannon18 wrote: > OK how do I get these videos? I really would like to have a set. Charles > can you go off RMA and e mail me a phone number to call and order with my > visa? Or an address to send a check to or whatever.
My phone is in my sig- and the e-mail address is real; feel free to call or write. You get the vids by either paying me or paying the distribution company. Our tape company is American Magnetic Media (www.amagnetic.com) (1-800-USA-TAPES) and you can use your credit card. I just set up a PayPal account, but I don't know what to do with it yet, so business with me is cash, check or money order. I can give the deals, the AMM can't.
> I have collected and studied about every knife video made. Some are > terrible; but some are real good too. This one looks real good.
I've not heard anything bad about it except as regards the production values. We're not movie makers, we're martial artists. The whole idea started because Steve wanted to chronicle the de Thouars' system and archive it for the future. Heartless Monkey Knife talks about knife choices, grips, carry systems, medical stuff, practice drills and solo exercises, applications of principles, technique- it's a couple of hours long, and there is a *lot* of information. We have them printed on the best tape we can get, so you can use it hard. You can also go through our website at (www.kuntaosilat.com) for the special 3-tape deal, and use a credit card.
I know it has been said -- all the superlatives re the Chas/ Gartin videos. The mark of good material, whether literary, musical, or visual, is its staying power. The Chas/ Gartin efforts have this. On first view, you say "Wow, this is practical, real, raw, good stuff." On second viewing, you say the same and pick up more nuances, maybe some subtle asides. And so on and on. Martial arts have more than their share of frivolity, fluff, and pretension. The Chas/ Gartin productions are straight. One hopes that better technical approaches will not diminish their warm, inviting (even hospitable), and humorous qualities.
"Badger" <baj7d@node12.unix.Virginia.EDU> wrote in message news:b3najg$sa0$1@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU... > > One thing about instructional stuff. Isn't getting tapes > actually better, in that most modern VCRs with 4 heads are able > to do good slo-mo, and rewind than you can do with a DVD?
I don't think so. My DVD player can do frame-by-frame and four levels of slo-mo inbetween. Since each frame is a digital picture, the quality shouldn't degrade.
On Fri, 28 Feb 2003 14:41:02 GMT, Chas <gryphons@attbi.com> scribbled with their crayola:
>Heartless Monkey Knife talks about knife choices, grips, carry >systems, medical stuff, practice drills and solo exercises, >applications of principles, technique- it's a couple of hours long, >and there is a *lot* of information. We have them printed on the best >tape we can get, so you can use it hard.
Fuck. I just watched it again and got more out of it. Kewl.
"DougŪ" <sokolistalinaREMOVE@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:v91v5votcib2sljhjikrn6mpnpv82e4n3d@4ax.com... > On Fri, 28 Feb 2003 10:25:05 -0500, Kirk Lawson > <NO_lklawson_SPAM@heapy.com_SPAMSUX> scribbled with their crayola: > > >Maybe you two could figure out a way to find a Canadian distributor. > >That's all I'm say'n. > > I'd be a rep for my area of the country. > > >Steve said: > >> > DougŪ - that is a high complement and I appreciate it. I want to thank > >> >you for such a positive review. > > >Doug said: > >> Well, neither one of you guys is as good looking as me but > >> heck, we can't all be as blessed. > >> =) > > >I always figured I'd rather have a good look'n wife then to be good > >look'n myself. > >Funny how things work out, eh? ;-) > > Yeah, I managed to get both. > =) > > DougŪ > http://members.tripod.com/~russianmartialart/systema.html
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Rob Peaker wrote: > > DougŪ <sokolistalinaREMOVE@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<gh5t5v8hsdf045fs2r4cqu3o2tnu78m7va@4ax.com>... > > Well I finally got a chance to see the heartless monkey video > > that Chas and Steve have. I thought I'd give you all my 2 cents worth > > and you can take it or leave it for whatever you want. > > Wow.... > > I realize I don't post here often, and tend to lurk (and laugh), > however I train with Badger Jones and Kevin
Well, that could explain why you wouldn't want to poke your head up that often. ;-)
Peace favor your sword (IH) -- "In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having weapons or knowledge of their use." -Achille Marozzo, 1536 -- "...it's the nature of the media and the participants. A herd of martial artists gets together and a fight breaks out; quelle surprise." -Chas Speaking of rec.martial-arts
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Not only do we not care about production values (as long as the tape is clear and not grainy or out of focus, which these are NOT), the content is totally Key.
Plus, I can tell you from my couple of convos with Steve and Chas that these guys are TOP drawer, and well worth supporting with our money and time.
"Badger" <baj7d@node3.unix.Virginia.EDU> wrote in message news:b3oe6p$akb$1@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU... > In article <v5v0d71t780344@corp.supernews.com>, > .B. <jagerball@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > > > >"Badger" <baj7d@node12.unix.Virginia.EDU> wrote in message > >news:b3najg$sa0$1@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU... > >> > >> One thing about instructional stuff. Isn't getting tapes > >> actually better, in that most modern VCRs with 4 heads are able > >> to do good slo-mo, and rewind than you can do with a DVD? > > > >I don't think so. My DVD player can do frame-by-frame and four levels of > >slo-mo inbetween. Since each frame is a digital picture, the quality > >shouldn't degrade. > > Dammit. I just knew my DVD sucked! I got the Sony DVP-NS400D. > It has no real slowmo controls at all. It's got Scan/Slow, > which sucks, and that's it. @#%$$!@# > > What kind do you have? ;-)
Marantz DV3100. I'm lookin' for a new one though, maybe the Marantz DV8300
Why do they call it "Heartless Monkey"?
-frl
Dave Pimlott wrote: > I look forward to HMK (or HMK 2) coming out on DVD (do you guys do > pre-order?!? :) ). Also what would be the shipping costs to the UK?
It runs about $8. We can pre-order simply by you're letting us know and I'll contact you when things become available.
> I could use these DVD(s) to complement my Kali / Escrima skills (if you can > call what I have "skill" ;) )
Sure- it's all very similar stuff in many ways.
-- Chas Clements casemaker 303-910-2685 (Denver area) Good evening Dave,
OK, I'll start work on it next week. > > I look forward to HMK (or HMK 2) coming out on DVD (do you guys do > pre-order?!? :) ). Also what would be the shipping costs to the UK? > > I could use these DVD(s) to complement my Kali / Escrima skills (if you can > call what I have "skill" ;) ) > As a matter of fact, I'm usually favorably impressed with the skills taught in other martial arts. It is easier to take someone with *skill* and teach applications than to start raw. IMO
> My reply to address is valid for any off newgroup correspondence.
So is mine . . . how unusual. > > With respect, > > Dave. > Mutually! > -- > All extremists should be taken out and shot.
"Badger" <baj7d@node12.unix.Virginia.EDU> wrote in message news:b3najg$sa0$1@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU... > > > Thanks for the great review. > > By the way, I saw one video, fairly famousl, called 'surviving > edged weapons' (SEW). And on it one of the 'experts' was doing > a 'fast draw' of his knife. Man, it was just ridiculous. The > guy was the slowest knife drawer I've ever seen. It's good to > know that we now have a good quality tape on edged weapons. Of > course part of SEW was pretty good. Just was laughing at the > 'quick draw' part. > > -B > -- > baj7d@virginia.edu
The COPs at Greenwood Village were watching that video when I brought Pak Victor in and introduced him to the locals. They were BLOWN away. We ended up conducting the first Offensive/Defensive Force Course there. The course is now available on DVD or VHS. http://www.kuntaosilat.com/webstore/shopping.htm
I've sent a master to Pak Victor so he may have it on his website soon too.
> I just set up a PayPal account, but I don't know what to do with >it yet, so business with me is cash, check or money order. >I can give the deals, the AMM can't. >
Hey Chas, I been a regular with PayPal for some time now. If you need anything, holler. If your account is open all you need to give is your Paypal name and anyone here can begin sending payments to your account. Get the Debit Card and you can use it anywhere that takes MasterCard. I use mine to ship at the post office. Makes it easy. Reserve ODF for me. I.ll be rolling again as soon as I get back on solid food <G>
"Steve Gartin" <steve@thunderrock.net> wrote in message news:3e6021a1_3@omega.dimensional.com... > Yeah Badger South, > > "Badger" <baj7d@node12.unix.Virginia.EDU> wrote in message > news:b3najg$sa0$1@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU... > > > > > > Thanks for the great review. > > > > By the way, I saw one video, fairly famousl, called 'surviving > > edged weapons' (SEW). And on it one of the 'experts' was doing > > a 'fast draw' of his knife. Man, it was just ridiculous. The > > guy was the slowest knife drawer I've ever seen. It's good to > > know that we now have a good quality tape on edged weapons. Of > > course part of SEW was pretty good. Just was laughing at the > > 'quick draw' part. > > > > -B > > -- > > baj7d@virginia.edu > > The COPs at Greenwood Village were watching that video when I brought Pak > Victor in and introduced him to the locals. They were BLOWN away. We ended > up conducting the first Offensive/Defensive Force Course there. The course > is now available on DVD or VHS. > http://www.kuntaosilat.com/webstore/shopping.htm > > I've sent a master to Pak Victor so he may have it on his website soon too. > > Steve Gartin - Free :-)> > www.kuntaosilat.com > > >
In article <3e6021a1_3@omega.dimensional.com>, Steve Gartin <steve@thunderrock.net> wrote: >Yeah Badger South, > >"Badger" <baj7d@node12.unix.Virginia.EDU> wrote in message >news:b3najg$sa0$1@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU... >> >> >> Thanks for the great review. >> >> By the way, I saw one video, fairly famousl, called 'surviving >> edged weapons' (SEW). And on it one of the 'experts' was doing >> a 'fast draw' of his knife. Man, it was just ridiculous. The >> guy was the slowest knife drawer I've ever seen. It's good to >> know that we now have a good quality tape on edged weapons. Of >> course part of SEW was pretty good. Just was laughing at the >> 'quick draw' part. >> >> -B >> -- >> baj7d@virginia.edu > >The COPs at Greenwood Village were watching that video when I brought Pak >Victor in and introduced him to the locals. They were BLOWN away. We ended >up conducting the first Offensive/Defensive Force Course there. The course >is now available on DVD or VHS. >http://www.kuntaosilat.com/webstore/shopping.htm > >I've sent a master to Pak Victor so he may have it on his website soon too. > >Steve Gartin - Free :-)> >www.kuntaosilat.com > Just a quick tip that I'm sure most of you guys know already.
"How so you get your weapon out of an ankle holster. Isn't it a pain to try and bend over and stuff and pull your pant leg up?"
(The guy on the SEW video was trying to do this.)
Sheesh, you just go to a kneeling position with the housed leg up, and the uh pants leg rises up accordingly. Plus you've just created a smaller target.
Alternately, you raise the housed leg up and put it on the table or chair, red-neck loitering position while you're talking to the bad-guy, all casual, house position on the inner ankle hidden by your leg forward, and you can snap the weapon out so fast it will scare the shit outta him.
I thought everyone knew this.
BTW, a friend of a friend just got one of those AlMar Corby Tanto folders for his b-Day. I called him up and all you could hear was the 'snap', 'snap' of him firing that puppy. Heh, heh. GOt a good deal on it too. Swift item. Of course it's not as fast as a microtech, but I guess he's savin' up fer dat. I had no idea you could get those as a civvy! No questions asked, he told me. ;-)
-B -- baj7d@virginia.edu In article <v5vlkm31go7q1a@corp.supernews.com>, .B. <jagerball@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >"Badger" <baj7d@node3.unix.Virginia.EDU> wrote in message >news:b3oe6p$akb$1@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU... >> In article <v5v0d71t780344@corp.supernews.com>, >> .B. <jagerball@sbcglobal.net> wrote: >> > >> >"Badger" <baj7d@node12.unix.Virginia.EDU> wrote in message >> >news:b3najg$sa0$1@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU... >> >> >> >> One thing about instructional stuff. Isn't getting tapes >> >> actually better, in that most modern VCRs with 4 heads are able >> >> to do good slo-mo, and rewind than you can do with a DVD? >> > >> >I don't think so. My DVD player can do frame-by-frame and four levels of >> >slo-mo inbetween. Since each frame is a digital picture, the quality >> >shouldn't degrade. >> >> Dammit. I just knew my DVD sucked! I got the Sony DVP-NS400D. >> It has no real slowmo controls at all. It's got Scan/Slow, >> which sucks, and that's it. @#%$$!@# >> >> What kind do you have? ;-) > > >Marantz DV3100. I'm lookin' for a new one though, maybe the Marantz DV8300
OK, I'll check that out on pricescan.com, and others. I'm looking for one of the newer ones that plays .mpgs, too. Maybe I'll donate the Sony to a poor relative? ;-)
Any new self-defense products in the works? <blushing> Hey, thank you! I appreciate your kind sentiments. Steve
<yotony@rmi.net> wrote in message news:b3nugj$d2a$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net... > > I know it has been said -- all the superlatives re the Chas/ Gartin videos. > The mark of good material, whether literary, musical, or visual, is its > staying power. The Chas/ Gartin efforts have this. On first view, you say > "Wow, this is practical, real, raw, good stuff." On second viewing, you say > the same and pick up more nuances, maybe some subtle asides. And so on and > on. Martial arts have more than their share of frivolity, fluff, and > pretension. The Chas/ Gartin productions are straight. One hopes that better > technical approaches will not diminish their warm, inviting (even > hospitable), and humorous qualities.
Any part of Canada south of TO is almost the USA anyway. I mean, they have *vinyards* in S. Ont.- it's almost like California! Besides, it's not like you can swim in Lake Erie. Ontario is supposed to have *fresh* water. ;) Except for Walkerton, of course. :(
tpm
Good Evening,
Chas is often shy about taking credit, but Chas coined the term. Sounded great to me, so we went with it.
"Chas" <gryphons@attbi.com> wrote in message news:3E5FF0FD.4F8EE25B@attbi.com... > Oliver Richman wrote: > > > > Why do they call it "Heartless Monkey"? > > Because Monkey fights 'wide open, heartless and inviting'. > Monkey is the only 'animal model' that looks like Man (don't think of > the little Paulie Zink Monkey, think of a mandrill/baboon/rock ape). > SerakŪ is known as the Decoy System because we set up traps for the > opponent; positioning, timing, spacial things, sounds- all kinds of > them. As much as we're based on any Chinese model of martial art, it > is all filtered through the Indonesian outlook on things. > > -- > Chas Clements > casemaker 303-910-2685 (Denver area)
Oliver Richman wrote: > > Why do they call it "Heartless Monkey"?
Because Monkey fights 'wide open, heartless and inviting'. Monkey is the only 'animal model' that looks like Man (don't think of the little Paulie Zink Monkey, think of a mandrill/baboon/rock ape). SerakŪ is known as the Decoy System because we set up traps for the opponent; positioning, timing, spacial things, sounds- all kinds of them. As much as we're based on any Chinese model of martial art, it is all filtered through the Indonesian outlook on things.
-- Chas Clements casemaker 303-910-2685 (Denver area) Rob Peaker wrote: > ......I > used Chas' trick of reinforcing my knife hand with my free hand.
It's the de Thouars' trick. Victor says; 'Two hands for beginners; two hands for gurus too.' A lot of what we do is to isolate the opponents 'part' (arm, leg, head, etc) and apply a lot of our body to it. Same thing the other way; we reinforce any body part as it attacks or defends. Victor also said; 'If you can't fight the (whole) man, fight the arm; if you can't fight the arm, fight the hand; if you can't fight the hand, fight the finger; if you can't fight the finger, fight the joint; if you can't fight the joint, fight the skin.' You pick whatever it is you think you can whip and cut it off from it's defenses.
-- Chas Clements casemaker 303-910-2685 (Denver area) On Thu, 27 Feb 2003 21:20:26 -0700, Steve Gartin <steve@thunderrock.net> wrote: > > Do you think a sequel would be in order?
judging by all the positive comments... YES!!
I look forward to HMK (or HMK 2) coming out on DVD (do you guys do pre-order?!? :) ). Also what would be the shipping costs to the UK?
I could use these DVD(s) to complement my Kali / Escrima skills (if you can call what I have "skill" ;) )
My reply to address is valid for any off newgroup correspondence.
With respect,
Dave.
-- All extremists should be taken out and shot. In article <v5v0d71t780344@corp.supernews.com>, .B. <jagerball@sbcglobal.net> wrote: > >"Badger" <baj7d@node12.unix.Virginia.EDU> wrote in message >news:b3najg$sa0$1@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU... >> >> One thing about instructional stuff. Isn't getting tapes >> actually better, in that most modern VCRs with 4 heads are able >> to do good slo-mo, and rewind than you can do with a DVD? > >I don't think so. My DVD player can do frame-by-frame and four levels of >slo-mo inbetween. Since each frame is a digital picture, the quality >shouldn't degrade.
Dammit. I just knew my DVD sucked! I got the Sony DVP-NS400D. It has no real slowmo controls at all. It's got Scan/Slow, which sucks, and that's it. @#%$$!@#
I realize I don't post here often, and tend to lurk (and laugh), however I train with Badger Jones and Kevin (if you really want to you can ask them). We were doing some knife work a couple of weeks ago...the hot potato drill. (See desc. of this drill below.)
Anyhow, the intensity level was rising, and I ended up going for a low stab at one of the more solid members of our club. He grabbed and isolated my knife hand and was getting a good start on a disarm. Due to the fact that I had recently been watching Kev's copy of HMK, I used Chas' trick of reinforcing my knife hand with my free hand. The net result was that my rather solid training partner ended up taking the training blade right across the throat. Ouch! Just one of the little gems that I picked up from the video....
Hot Potato Drill: - 1 training knife - a group of participants in a circle, one starts out in the middle of the circle, with the knife - the knife wielder randomly singles out an opponent and attacks - the defender counters and goes for a disarm, once the disarm has been achieved, he becomes the new attacker and again randomly selects someone and attacks (with the disarmed opponent going back into the circle) - the knife is the hot potato - the idea is to train flow and reaction time - start with a co-operative mindset and gradually increase the resistance
> Anyway, Pierre! Dude, you will LOVE this video. I know that >it's expensive making the cash converstion but I honestly would >recommend it. Badger, and the rest of us Canucks, you guys too.
We've already got it, dude. Made us believers.
Badger Jones www.cyberus.ca/~badger And whose cruel idea was it to put an S in the word Lisp? **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****
"DougŪ" wrote:
> > Hey, you Canadian guys shouldn't be sucking hind tit here just because of > > the conversion. Let's figure out how we can level the price field for you > > guys - let me know and Chas and I will make adjustments. > > Us Canadian guys always have to suck it up and take it when it > comes to getting videos from the USA. This is why many of us are > reluctant to buy from the USA and when one of us finds something good > we let the others know. Thus if you have good stuff you'll find most > of us will buy it. If you sell shitty stuff we avoid you like the > plague because we tend to let each other know to avoid all of us > getting screwed. I suggest though that everyone contact you if they > want the video and talk to you.
Maybe you two could figure out a way to find a Canadian distributor.
That's all I'm say'n.
> > DougŪ - that is a high complement and I appreciate it. I want to thank > >you for such a positive review. > > Well, neither one of you guys is as good looking as me but > heck, we can't all be as blessed. > =)
I always figured I'd rather have a good look'n wife then to be good look'n myself.
Funny how things work out, eh? ;-)
Peace favor your sword (IH) -- "In these modern times, many men are wounded for not having weapons or knowledge of their use." -Achille Marozzo, 1536 -- "...it's the nature of the media and the participants. A herd of martial artists gets together and a fight breaks out; quelle surprise." -Chas Speaking of rec.martial-arts
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Thank you!! "Chas" <gryphons@attbi.com> wrote in message news:3E5F74B5.61CCDE1C@attbi.com... > hcannon18 wrote: > > OK how do I get these videos? I really would like to have a set. Charles > > can you go off RMA and e mail me a phone number to call and order with my > > visa? Or an address to send a check to or whatever. > > My phone is in my sig- and the e-mail address is real; feel free to > call or write. > You get the vids by either paying me or paying the distribution > company. Our tape company is American Magnetic Media > (www.amagnetic.com) (1-800-USA-TAPES) and you can use your credit > card. I just set up a PayPal account, but I don't know what to do with > it yet, so business with me is cash, check or money order. > I can give the deals, the AMM can't. > > > I have collected and studied about every knife video made. Some are > > terrible; but some are real good too. This one looks real good. > > I've not heard anything bad about it except as regards the production > values. We're not movie makers, we're martial artists. The whole idea > started because Steve wanted to chronicle the de Thouars' system and > archive it for the future. > Heartless Monkey Knife talks about knife choices, grips, carry > systems, medical stuff, practice drills and solo exercises, > applications of principles, technique- it's a couple of hours long, > and there is a *lot* of information. We have them printed on the best > tape we can get, so you can use it hard. > You can also go through our website at (www.kuntaosilat.com) for the > special 3-tape deal, and use a credit card. > > -- > Chas Clements > casemaker 303-910-2685 (Denver area)
> Good evening DougŪ > Just got home and pulled up the group and what do I find! > I'm humbled - thank you.
No worries. I tellit like I see it. If I felt it had been crap I would have said so. You always take a big step when you put what you do on video out for others to critique.
> Do you think a sequel would be in order?
I think that if you have this kind of stuff to share many people would do well to check it out.
> I'm working on the quality issue, but quality is directly affected by cash > flow; and it has been a bit of a struggle for me the past 10 years or so. > The next influx of cash will buy new equipment - the improvement in >quality of production should be noticable. I'm working on the Heartless Monkey > Knife DVD right this moment and it looks better to me.
The quality doesn't bug me. I pulled at least 3 entry's for my grappling out of the intro alone that I will be trying.
> We like to teach the application with the technique so that folks >understand WHY they are making certain precise movements. Seems an easier way to > understand for me, but I find that only mature practitioners view things > from that stand-point. Most folks like the flashy stuff.
My problem was that the place I went to showed me what it could be used for but we never had the time to actually work it. Most of my previous training left me with the impression that once you have practical application you start training it asap. So I was a little frustrated.
> Chas has a talent for nitty-gritty explanation! As a matter of fact, I >can think of no-one his equal in that realm. I've always felt that he and I > make a complimentary teaching unit - especially since he can explain me > better than I can!
I liked how he brought you in and out at that one seminar when he wanted to show an example of something.
> We've actually had a lot of information out in high-level circles for a > decade or better. Lots of self-proclaimed *experts* have been using our > material for some time now. I appreciate your compliment - thank you.
Dunno anything about that. I just can comment on what i saw.
> Thanks for spreading the word. That is our best advertisement.
Why hide it I say? If people are exposed to it then they can appreciate it or not. Their loss or gain.
> That's my son, Elijah Rock Gartin - he was six and seven then. Since it's >a *family art* everyone practices.
Your son moves better than many artists I have seen.
> When I first met Uncle Bill, we used to kid about him being *most likely >to be mugged* jest from the stand-point that he appears an easy mark. . . >Woops! - some day I'll tell you some really funny stories. . .
Yeah, he sorta looks like some old codger until he starts to move.
> We call that *play* - but to get the real drift, you need to have a knife >in your hands.
The "Play" gave me nasty ideas. Heh heh heh...gonna try some.
> Hey, you Canadian guys shouldn't be sucking hind tit here just because of > the conversion. Let's figure out how we can level the price field for you > guys - let me know and Chas and I will make adjustments.
Us Canadian guys always have to suck it up and take it when it comes to getting videos from the USA. This is why many of us are reluctant to buy from the USA and when one of us finds something good we let the others know. Thus if you have good stuff you'll find most of us will buy it. If you sell shitty stuff we avoid you like the plague because we tend to let each other know to avoid all of us getting screwed. I suggest though that everyone contact you if they want the video and talk to you.
> DougŪ - that is a high complement and I appreciate it. I want to thank >you for such a positive review.
Well, neither one of you guys is as good looking as me but heck, we can't all be as blessed. =)
> The Canadian contingency has certainly earned my respect and admiration. > You guys all strike me as sincere and dedicated practitioners and I truly > appreciate all your support over the years. When there is a way that I >can be of assistance to any of you gentlemen, please let me know. >> With highest regards, >> Steve Gartin - Free :-)> >> www.kuntaosilat.com
Thanx. There are those of us up here who are fighters, artists, and scrappers. Those kind of men are found everywhere because they are the same breed regardless of nationality.
"Chas" <gryphons@attbi.com> wrote in message news:3E5ED200.C9DA793B@attbi.com... > Loki@lokiland.org wrote: > > > > When I bought the 3 pack (Heartless Monkey, Daju Satu, Legwork) Chas 's > > Combat cane video came with it ... FREE. I had to call Steve up and thank > > him. Thanks to you to Chas. > > Happy to do it- a little present for being a nice guy and tolerating a > wait graciously. > > -- > Chas Clements > casemaker 303-910-2685 (Denver area)
OK how do I get these videos? I really would like to have a set. Charles can you go off RMA and e mail me a phone number to call and order with my visa? Or an address to send a check to or whatever. I have collected and studied about every knife video made. Some are terrible; but some are real good too. This one looks real good.
One thing about instructional stuff. Isn't getting tapes actually better, in that most modern VCRs with 4 heads are able to do good slo-mo, and rewind than you can do with a DVD?
I realize tapes are on the way out, and tapes -wear out-, but thought I'd ask.
OK the quality is not so good, but do you mean 'video quality' as in fuzzy or out of focus or recorded at Extended mode (grainy) versus SLP (best quality on your VCR), or just the lighting and backyard aspect.
I don't mind if it's got good content, but just wondering.
Thanks for the great review.
By the way, I saw one video, fairly famousl, called 'surviving edged weapons' (SEW). And on it one of the 'experts' was doing a 'fast draw' of his knife. Man, it was just ridiculous. The guy was the slowest knife drawer I've ever seen. It's good to know that we now have a good quality tape on edged weapons. Of course part of SEW was pretty good. Just was laughing at the 'quick draw' part.
"Chas" <gryphons@attbi.com> wrote in message news:3E5EE56E.AD22D2EB@attbi.com... > Steve Gartin wrote: > > ......When there is a way that I can > > be of assistance to any of you gentlemen, please let me know. > > Yeah; what he said. > And, anyone else who's having trouble with the prices, let me know. I > know it sounds silly to say we're not in this for the money, but we've > been giving away the store since we started out. > Ask my wife <g>
And ask my Xwife!
> The de Thouars Brothers gave this as a gift, and we can do no less. > Admittedly, we're trying to pay off equipment and buy more, fix stuff, > and make more tapes and all that, but this has never been a paying > proposition for anyone involved. > The Gift of Gold has always been the same for the Widow's Son as it is > for the Son of the Sultan; you do what you can with an open heart and > a generous hand. > > -- > Chas Clements > casemaker 303-910-2685 (Denver area)
Steve
Good Evening,
<Loki@lokiland.org> wrote in message news:v5tiuc9gpq1tcd@corp.supernews.com... > When I bought the 3 pack (Heartless Monkey, Daju Satu, Legwork) Chas 's > Combat cane video came with it ... FREE. I had to call Steve up and thank > him. Thanks to you to Chas. > > There is only one bad thing about these videos, the DVDs just came out and > now I'll want to buy another set.
You know, you are probably not alone. I think we will make a deal on the DVDs for the folks who have been buying the videos all along - we'll make it up in volume. Drop me an email.
Loki@lokiland.org wrote: > > When I bought the 3 pack (Heartless Monkey, Daju Satu, Legwork) Chas 's > Combat cane video came with it ... FREE. I had to call Steve up and thank > him. Thanks to you to Chas.
Happy to do it- a little present for being a nice guy and tolerating a wait graciously.
-- Chas Clements casemaker 303-910-2685 (Denver area) When I bought the 3 pack (Heartless Monkey, Daju Satu, Legwork) Chas 's Combat cane video came with it ... FREE. I had to call Steve up and thank him. Thanks to you to Chas.
There is only one bad thing about these videos, the DVDs just came out and now I'll want to buy another set.
"Jacob Andersen" <duk@glem.det> wrote in message news:3e5eabda$0$14511$ba624c82@nntp04.dk.telia.net... > "DougŪ" <sokolistalinaREMOVE@hotmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse > news:gh5t5v8hsdf045fs2r4cqu3o2tnu78m7va@4ax.com... > > Well I finally got a chance to see the heartless monkey video > > that Chas and Steve have. I thought I'd give you all my 2 cents worth > > and you can take it or leave it for whatever you want. > > Wow.... > > Seriously... > > Wow... > > If you own, play, work, or even like to look at knives and you > > have not picked up this video you are missing out on something. > > I can't believe the amount of info this video has. Everything > > from practical carry and use info on knife fighting to > > emotional/psychological aspects of fighting itself alone and knife use > > as well. > > Don't get me wrong, the video quality itself is nothing to > > write home about. It's not Steven Speilberg or George Lucas quality. > > It is what it CONTAINS that makes it so damn good. It's a good > > compilation of stuff DESPITE the video quality. > > I went to a silat school a while back and when they tried to > > teach me a Juru I was bored stiff. I wanted to do the technical hands > > on stuff. Even when I asked application, when they showed me I could > > have cared less. It was boring and I couldn't see their application > > being useful. Thanx to Steve Gartin in that video I now have a better > > understanding and on top of that a USEFUL application concept. > > Chas, Chas, Chas...you old bastard. The stuff you were showing > > in what looked like your back yard was great everyday use on what to > > do with a knife when you are out in public. No sugar coated stuff you > > can do in the dojo. Sure there was some art aspects of the knife but > > most of the stuff I saw was fuctional. In fact, all through it I saw > > comparisons to stuff I do in Systema knife and stuff I have seen when > > I have been exposed to Pekiti Tersia. Vlad himself loves to "disarm > > the gun" as you explained. > > Steve... > > Whoah... > > You are one fluid son of a biotch. That double knife part of > > the video had my head moving like a spectator at a retarded doubles > > tennis match with 10 tennis balls in action. The talk you gave on > > drawing the blade and using it even when folded or the shealth being a > > weapon and how to combine the two was great. I've seen stuff like that > > but your explanation was awesome and you follwed it along by giving > > kewl examples. > > Midway through my viewing I was interrupted by a friend whom I > > like to train with, within minutes he spoke up with, "Can I borrow > > this?" Of couse being the friend I am I said "No." Ha ha ha! But he > > sat down and watched it with me. Totally enthralled. > > Who was that kid at the start of the video? Wow! He's like 10 > > and moves like that? Uncle Bill looked like some old dude but watching > > carefully his motion with that knife he's and old dude I would be > > saying, "Uhhh...is there anything I can get for you...Sir?" > > Also, that intro was kewl. At first I thought it was kinda > > stupid and just an intro for the credits and bad music but then I > > suddenly stopped and saw a gate into for grappling. I was like, "Damn, > > I am trying that in submission fighting this week. In fact, there is > > another one. Hey, that's another entry!" > > Anyway, Pierre! Dude, you will LOVE this video. I know that > > it's expensive making the cash converstion but I honestly would > > recommend it. Badger, and the rest of us Canucks, you guys too. > > Seriously, thanx Chas and Steve. But now I hate you. It's not > > fair. Like a pusher who gives out his first samples to hook his > > clientel. But I have to say, when you get videos of actual fighting > > men, (and not some wacko who is theoretical about his art and has > > videos in a sterile evironment where he explain how things "should > > work,") well, you can appreciate them. > > A big thumbs up from me. Anyone on RMA who buys this video > > IMHO will be getting their money's worth and a ton of stuff that they > > can use to work in training that will be helpful. > > ...and that's my bottom line! > > > > DougŪ > > http://members.tripod.com/~russianmartialart/systema.html > > It's a pretty good video, eh? > > /Jacob > >
"DougŪ" <sokolistalinaREMOVE@hotmail.com> skrev i en meddelelse news:gh5t5v8hsdf045fs2r4cqu3o2tnu78m7va@4ax.com... > Well I finally got a chance to see the heartless monkey video > that Chas and Steve have. I thought I'd give you all my 2 cents worth > and you can take it or leave it for whatever you want. > Wow.... > Seriously... > Wow... > If you own, play, work, or even like to look at knives and you > have not picked up this video you are missing out on something. > I can't believe the amount of info this video has. Everything > from practical carry and use info on knife fighting to > emotional/psychological aspects of fighting itself alone and knife use > as well. > Don't get me wrong, the video quality itself is nothing to > write home about. It's not Steven Speilberg or George Lucas quality. > It is what it CONTAINS that makes it so damn good. It's a good > compilation of stuff DESPITE the video quality. > I went to a silat school a while back and when they tried to > teach me a Juru I was bored stiff. I wanted to do the technical hands > on stuff. Even when I asked application, when they showed me I could > have cared less. It was boring and I couldn't see their application > being useful. Thanx to Steve Gartin in that video I now have a better > understanding and on top of that a USEFUL application concept. > Chas, Chas, Chas...you old bastard. The stuff you were showing > in what looked like your back yard was great everyday use on what to > do with a knife when you are out in public. No sugar coated stuff you > can do in the dojo. Sure there was some art aspects of the knife but > most of the stuff I saw was fuctional. In fact, all through it I saw > comparisons to stuff I do in Systema knife and stuff I have seen when > I have been exposed to Pekiti Tersia. Vlad himself loves to "disarm > the gun" as you explained. > Steve... > Whoah... > You are one fluid son of a biotch. That double knife part of > the video had my head moving like a spectator at a retarded doubles > tennis match with 10 tennis balls in action. The talk you gave on > drawing the blade and using it even when folded or the shealth being a > weapon and how to combine the two was great. I've seen stuff like that > but your explanation was awesome and you follwed it along by giving > kewl examples. > Midway through my viewing I was interrupted by a friend whom I > like to train with, within minutes he spoke up with, "Can I borrow > this?" Of couse being the friend I am I said "No." Ha ha ha! But he > sat down and watched it with me. Totally enthralled. > Who was that kid at the start of the video? Wow! He's like 10 > and moves like that? Uncle Bill looked like some old dude but watching > carefully his motion with that knife he's and old dude I would be > saying, "Uhhh...is there anything I can get for you...Sir?" > Also, that intro was kewl. At first I thought it was kinda > stupid and just an intro for the credits and bad music but then I > suddenly stopped and saw a gate into for grappling. I was like, "Damn, > I am trying that in submission fighting this week. In fact, there is > another one. Hey, that's another entry!" > Anyway, Pierre! Dude, you will LOVE this video. I know that > it's expensive making the cash converstion but I honestly would > recommend it. Badger, and the rest of us Canucks, you guys too. > Seriously, thanx Chas and Steve. But now I hate you. It's not > fair. Like a pusher who gives out his first samples to hook his > clientel. But I have to say, when you get videos of actual fighting > men, (and not some wacko who is theoretical about his art and has > videos in a sterile evironment where he explain how things "should > work,") well, you can appreciate them. > A big thumbs up from me. Anyone on RMA who buys this video > IMHO will be getting their money's worth and a ton of stuff that they > can use to work in training that will be helpful. > ...and that's my bottom line! > > DougŪ > http://members.tripod.com/~russianmartialart/systema.html
It's a pretty good video, eh?
/Jacob
----- Original Message ----- From: "Benjamin Ford" <benjamin_ford@yahoo.com> To: <chasclements@comcast.net> Sent: Tuesday, March 02, 2004 2:36 PM Subject: Greetings
> G'dy Chas, long time no hear. > > I'm the Australian guy that's bought a few tapes from > you over the last few years; studies Chinese medicine, > had a sick (cancer) girlfriend. > > Anyhow, the girl is all better, I'm nearly finished > study and I'm ready to get back on with things. > > A training buddy of mine asked me some questions about > the material on the tapes I have. As I was ordering > the material in my head, I realised that for the > effort I was going to I might as well write it down. > This dovetailed nicely with something else I've been > wanting to do for a while: write some good reviews and > post it to rma. > > I'm a bit over the trolls who impugn you and Steve > (and the system) with regularity but who never > investigate it. I just want to balance out the public > opinion thing a bit. If it helps even one perso to > learn something, it's been worthwhile. > > So here's the review. It's long, it's a first draft, > and I'd appreciate it if you could correct any errors > I might have made, and make any pertinent suggestions > - 'cause you've got a ripper writing style. > > Cheers, > > Benjamin > > ======================================================= > As I've been enjoying the benefits of these fine > gentlemen's tapes for a few years now, I thought I'd > demonstrate a little civil gratitude and step up and > put in my two cents in support of their fine work. I > admit to being a whole hearted supporter of their > endeavours, but it's because I spent time, money and > effort in the search. > > I understand that not a lot has changed and that > they're still attracting their fair share of critics > and detractors. I find it unusual to say the least > that people can be so critical without doing anything > to research their criticism. Buying one of their > videotapes would be a very simple and cheap way of > doing so. I would not be surprised if the gentlemen in > question would send you a tape at cost if you were > genuine in reviewing their activities. I say this as > someone who lives very far from these men. Individuals > who live in the same country, let alone the same > state, rapidly lose credibility if they don't make a > genuine effort. Certainly their lives and even their > homes are open to the genuine student. > > If some of the boobs who flame them here actually went > to the trouble of having a look at them, they'd > probably end up eating their own words. Then again, > maybe not. Worms don't have the eyes to see a real > man. Because that's what you're dealing with here. > They're the real deal. I've been to seminars with > individuals considered to be world class martial > artists, top of the range. These guys are this good, > and are often better than far more famous individuals > with better developed skills at self promotion than > bone breaking. > > I've found Chas Clements and Steve Gartin to be > paragons of moral virtue. I would ask you to read that > sentence again and really pay attention to my words. I > mean every one of them with no substitution or > deletion. They have unfailingly demonstrated the > highest standards of conduct, matched only by their > wisdom and experience, neither of which was arrived at > without personal loss. They have been equally generous > with this wealth of knowledge. Nothing will be held > from you except where it could impair your learning. > Knowing too much can be a bad thing. The conscious > mind is often not the target of teaching in real > combat arts. > > Chas in particular has been generous with his time and > advice. I've found him to be prompt and unusually > honest in business dealings. The only time he delayed > mailing an item was when he was quite seriously > unwell. On one occasion he sent me the wrong tape. > When I informed him and offered to return the tape > before he sent out the proper one he insisted I keep > the extra tape while he mailed out the original order > entirely at his own expense. > > You don't meet too many people like this in a life. > Take notice and treasure it while you have the > opportunity to do so. > > General thoughts > > As good as these tapes are, they are not for > everybody. If you compete to win trophies, participate > in one step, light or no contact sparring, or practice > for maximum aesthetic appeal....these tapes are not > for you. > > If on the other hand you train in classic or reality > oriented martial arts, or if your interest is > restricted solely to health, then you'll find a mine > of riches. Like a mine, the rewards are proportional > to how hard you look, and how hard you're prepared to > work. > > You'll probably get the most out of these tapes if you > have a background in a solid Shaolin or neijia school, > more common SE Asian arts and the odd koryu. It also > helps if you're body isn't too beat up, although these > tapes show action from all sorts of folk, ranging from > super conditioned athletic types to mobility-impaired > older people. Reasonable physical condition enables > you to undertake a wider variety of the choreography > and tactics presented but is not required for getting > your money's worth. > > Note that these are not tapes produced by one of the > big outfits like Paladin or Panther. As they say, > though, they are produced by and for serious martial > artists. So don't expect multiple angles (except when > the cameraman gets up and moves it), voice overs and > the like. > > In general I've found the tapes by senior Western > students to be a little easier to understand than > those produced by their Eastern teachers. Pak Vic has > been the exception This is not to say that they are > not worthwhile - just that you have to a dig a little > deeper to get to the treasure. It's worth the effort. > > A little about me > > My father was a heavyweight boxer from a poor area > near the docks in Liverpool, England. My formal > martial training began at age 18 with a Japanese > koryu. After seven years in this system, I left to > pick up the study of the neijia. My main experience in > this area has been old Yang style taiji with one of > Erle Montaigue's senior students. I've also picked up > some entry level pakua and hsingi, and some capoeira > Angola, along the way. I'm currently a practitioner of > traditional Chinese medicine although I used to be a > professional in the IT industry. I have some > familiarity with Astanga yoga, various schools of > meditation and chi kung. I don't claim to be an expert > or an authority, but following Musashi I hope I have > some small skill in learning to discern value even in > small things. I may not be the biggest ass kicker on > the block, but I have kept my eyes open and paid > attention over the years. I like to think it's given > me some perspective. > > With a couple of exceptions I've managed to avoid > serious assault. Companions and training partners with > less luck, more testosterone, or more confrontational > occupations, have furnished me with ample opportunity > to compare notes on real world problems and > ramifications. These have ranged from psych nurses, > police officers (including undercover narcotics > officers), soldiers with close quarter combat > experience, corrections officers, security personnel > and some gentlemen from the wrong side of the tracks > who shall remain anonymous. > > Knife Seminar 1 > > The first tape I bought from these fine gents. Not a > bad choice, although for a first exposure Djuru Satu > is probably better. This is a seminar delivered by > Willem de Thouars to the students (I believe) of a TKD > or hapkido school. Consequently, close quarters armed > combat is probably not their forte although their > dedication and willingness is absolutely commendable. > Steve Gartin is presumably behind the camera. > > Most of the material is about defending empty handed > against the knife. As Uncle Bill explains, knife on > knife encounters in the real world are rare. Most > knife assaults occur from ambush, or at least from a > position of some surprise. You also have to have your > own knife handy. If not, then it's hand or stick or > chair or whatever to knife. You get the idea. A > variety of common attacks culled from Bill's training > and experience are shown and defended against. > > But sticking a knife into an unsuspecting target isn't > what you came here for. You signed on to learn how to > prevent yourself from getting stuck. So where's the > good stuff? > > Happily, there's a lot of it. The responses range from > the simple to the sophisticated (but still elegant). > Variations and subtleties of the different approaches > are shown. A little discernment will identify a number > of possible drills. There is a lot to be picked up > here, but the best rewards do not come through casual > viewing. You are not being spoon-fed. A careful and > discerning eye will reveal (and reward you with) much. > Particularly worthwhile are the instances where Bill's > careful positioning and bodily alignment results in a > display of surprising power. > > Uncle Bill may take some getting used to if you're not > familiar with older people from different cultures. > His accent and mindset may take a while to get used > to. If that's the case ignore the audio and watch his > body. You'll learn more. Bill's physical movement > ranges from 20 yr old athlete to rickety old fella. > This can be disconcerting if you don't know what > you're watching. You're seeing a man who's paid for > his excellence with the integrity of his own body. > You're also seeing the deep body awareness and mind > control resulting from that excellence lifting him to > heights of physical performance he should not be > capable of given his physical limitations. > > Djuru Satu > > One of the tapes (along with HMK and the Warm Up Set) > which the guys use as a comprehensive introduction to > their arts. If you haven't seen any silat before, this > is the place to start. I had already seen Stevan > Plinck's Paladin tape (which you should also get, > along with his two new privately published tapes) so I > had some idea of what was going on. > > To my mind, one of the most important things about > studying this tape is that you see so many different > practices and styles of practice arising out of the > one form. Why? Why is this important? If you want to > have a think about it or are uninterested in my > thoughts, then skip the next paragraph. > > The first and most important thing about seeing the > same choreography being done in so many ways is that > it should be obvious that the specific movements > themselves are not the most important thing. The > principles are. Even if you don't intellectually > understand this, then by repetition your nasty little > reptile brain will. Then your body will follow. > > So what do you get: you get Djuru Satu as chi kung; > subtleties of the form; many different applications; > you get to see it done by masters, senior teachers, > both senior and junior students; see it done with a > knife (if you're smarter than me, you might see the > knife change hands); see it done different ways. > > I feel I need to expand on the subtleties and > applications. > > Subtleties re the things that will save your life in a > tight spot. If this doesn't mean much to you then read > on ahead. To me a subtlety is what they call secrets > in other arts. It's that little additional layer of > detail that magnifies the effect or efficiency of a > tactic or motion. It's what keeps you from being > gutted by a 220 lbs biker hiding in a closet with a > big Bowie knife when you're executing a search warrant > (as happened to an old training buddy of mine). It's > the art of getting out of the path of that blade, then > putting enough hurt on the man behind it that he is no > longer a threat to you, your friends, or your family. > > The applications are many and varied. They range from > the obvious to the "You know, I don't think I ever > would have thought of that" cases. They are all, > universally, concise, efficient and effective. A > number of them are so surprising I was left thinking > "Yep, if they pulled that one on me, I'd be dead now". > Sobering and salutary. > > All in all, this is the most exhaustive approach to a > training method that I think I've ever seen (only Erle > Montaigue to my knowledge does more, but he's got a > family to feed. I also think they'd send me to sleep > if I wasn't watching them with a training group). The > only thing more surprising is that Guru Gartin has so > much, I hear he's planning to release a second volume. > Bring it on brother! > > Heartless Monkey Knife > > I thought I knew a bit about a knife. I did, but a lot > of it wasn't one tenth as good as this. As being a > very appropriate weapon for this time and my place (as > compared to a sword, crossbow or musket) I'd put quite > a bit of time and energy into knife training. Please, > it wasn't the ninja command death dealer in the > shadows sort of thing. Just good solid knife training. > > Then I watched this tape and I knew without a shadow > of a doubt that this was the really real thing. These > guys had a depth and range of knife lore that far > surpassed anything in my prior experience. I wasn't a > newbie or a moron. It's just that these guys and what > they have is so good. > > What you get: some more defenses against the blade > (FWIW, I liked these better than Knife 1); various > principles or attitudes towards knife fighting; a > range of grips and tactics; discussion of various > knife types; discussion of anatomical targets and > considerations when cutting; manipulation of the > knife; defending against a knife attack empty handed, > then deploying and using your own knife. > > A real stand out on this tape is the two knife > kembangan performed by Steve Gartin. Startling as it > is, it segues into an empty hand performance that > spans Shaolin, hsingi, pakua, and a few silat styles. > That's what I noticed. Maybe you'll pick up more. > > Unless you're Dan Inosanto, you'll probably find > something new and interesting here. > > Warm-up Set > > Speaking of Dan Inosanto, this tape is basically a > compilation put together by Bill De Thouars and his > seniors as a demo for him. > > The tape starts off with Uncle Bill going through his > background in somewhat exhaustive detail. This is > important in the context: Bill is giving hormat and > adat to his teachers. > > Bill gets the ball rolling by demonstrating one of the > 200 or so forms he knows. This is one of the first he > learnt, a quite karate looking kick/punch kuntao form. > The really tasty spin to this basic looking set > consists of the sophisticated applications Bill > derives from it. He also demonstrates some Tjimande, a > kuntao knife form, some bagua, as well as a number of > applications derived from the forms displayed. The > seniors in the form of Steve Gartin and Chas Clements > also have their turn in the spotlight. > > For me, it's the performances of the students that > particularly impress. It's been said that to judge the > strength of a teacher, look at his senior students. > These practitioners are very strong indeed. A > groundfighting form, a kuntao tiger form, a longer > combined kuntao/silat form, push hands, all with their > accompanying applications are put on exhibition. A > number of drills are shown, and a number more could be > derived from scrutiny of the material presented. > > Legwork Seminar 1 > > Another Bill de Thouars seminar, this time a big group > at a karate school. As the name implies this tape > focuses on lower body maneuvers. A lot is covered > here. Silat and kuntao have lots of ways of putting > you on your butt. > > There are numerous examples, applications, and drills. > Sources range from the very Indonesian to pakua circle > walking. There is a long chi kung set towards the end, > and a senior student demos a couple of forms. > > Overall, there's a lot on this tape. It's a long one, > about two hours. The only flaw is that while Bill is > explaining things to the class the audio is a bit low, > making it hard to make it out just what is being said. > I guess it's time to just look where their feet are. > > I understand that Steve Gartin has done a new legwork > tape so that's probably the way to go. >
